Back in America

If you're tired of arguing with strangers on the internet, try talking with one of them in real life. Welcome to Back in America, the podcast. Nancy Board knows all about long distance relationships. Her husband is Seattle adventurer, Erdene Arouche. He's finally home after spending nearly a year rowing across the Pacific Ocean by himself. He stepped out of here. Erouche set a world record with 312 continuous days at sea.

He went nearly eight months without seeing another human being. Seattle adventurer, Erdene Arouche, recently completed a five-year journey to circumnavigate the globe under his own power. He was driven into action by the death of his good friend, Goran Krop. Erdene would use his life savings and put his marriage on hold to complete his goal. It would never be easy. Tested by nature, drained financially, and emotionally spent, Erdene would keep going, keep moving forward, by boat, bike, and boot.

I lost focus. I got into a severe depression and Nancy was there to stand by during that time. Hello everyone, I'm Stan Bertoulout and this is Back in America. Today, I am speaking with Nancy Board and her husband, Erdene Arouche, who are joining me via Skype from their home in Seattle. When I prepared this interview, I realized that our talk will be complex and fascinating. It is complex because there are so many stories to talk about and fascinating because the two of you are truly exceptional.

Erdene, you completed the first solo circumnavigation by human power in five years and eleven days, during which you covered over 50,000 miles. You did that on a 24-foot ocean rowing boat during an adventure known as the Around and Over Expedition. You have countless awards and 15 Guinness World Records. Nancy, you are the co-founder and CEO of Global Women for Well-being, as well as the Clinical Services Manager at the Washington State Employee Assistance Program. You spend your career focusing on mental health and mental well-being and today, your

organization strives to empower women to create better health and well-being for themselves, their businesses and their communities. So in the first part of our discussion today, I would like to understand the relationship that has tied you together even when, eleven years ago, Erdene left for his five years adventure. I know, Nancy, that you've been like a lighthouse, an anchor and maybe even a life jacket at time for your husband. In the second part of this interview, I will ask you to talk about the MidGuard expedition

and again, I will ask Nancy how the two of you are preparing for it. So welcome, Nancy and Erdene. Thank you so much for the opportunity. Well thank you. Nancy, let's start with you. How did you grow up? I grew up in the middle of Missouri in a tiny town in the middle of this country called Perryville, Missouri.

And at that time, I had no idea that this was in my future whatsoever. Yeah, I can imagine that. I know a little bit about you, Erdene, but can you tell us where you grew up? I was born in Cyprus. I grew up in Turkey. And I came to the United States in 1986 for graduate studies and ended up staying. Yeah. So when or where did you both meet?

Well, we met in Chicago at my office in May of 2000. Erdene, what drew you to Nancy? I think her openness and willingness to start a conversation. She walked up to me in the coffee room and asked, how come we haven't met before? And I said, well, I work in Seattle. You work in Chicago. Yeah. And she goes, what do you do in Seattle?

I said, would you like to know what I'd rather do? And then I told her I'd like to go around the world by human power. That was really our introduction. Already? Okay. So you knew where you were stepping into, right? Yeah. Oh, yeah.

I knew from the get-go. So what about you, Nancy? When you saw that guy there, what did you think? He walked over and we shook hands. And I looked into his eyes and I saw this depth that I normally don't see when I look into someone's eyes. And I was intrigued from the very beginning. And after shaking hands, there was energy that was left in my palm.

And I thought, what is this? That doesn't happen when I meet people. I meet people all over the world. Erdan, back to you. How were you when you first realized that you had an appetite for extreme achievements? My father introduced me to mountaineering at age 11. I started young and then stayed active in sports through middle school, high school, into my university years.

And I always read books about high altitude climbing and big wall climbing and so in polar exploration. So reading drew me in about these exploits. So I think the idea was seeded very early on. That I would do it myself, that I would want to go out and pursue such goals came later. One of the tragedies of life is that I lost Joran while climbing together, Joran Kropp. He had bicycled from Sweden to Nepal in 1996. He was famous for that and he had encouraged me to get started.

Until then, I had done weekend jaunts and I was a weekend warrior, but hadn't committed to bigger adventures, bigger expeditions. That loss was the turning point for me and then I didn't look back after that. So you lose your friend in a climbing accident and you commit yourself to do this around the world, rowing, expedition, to pay tribute to your friend. Is that it? Well, I wanted to go around the world by human power. I lost him in September of 2002 on the way back from his funeral in November in Stockholm.

On the plane, I drew the world map on a piece of paper and marked the highest summit on each continent except Antarctica. I said, I'm going to go to each one of these by human power in memory of Joran. So I would not only do my own journey around the world, but I would go to these summits as well, which would be in his memory. So that's how it came about. The first summit that I did was Mount McKinley. And so the accident happened in September.

I decided in November, I started bicycling north from Seattle toward Alaska February 1st, towing my climbing gear behind me on a trailer just like Joran had to Everest. It was winter conditions, icy snowbound roads. British Columbia and Yukon all the way to Alaska. And two friends joined me. We walked in the length of the Kahiltna Glacier using snow shoes and a sled. And two other friends brought in extra supplies to base camp. We carried on to the summit.

So that Mount McKinley was done. I flew off the mountain and married Nancy. She flew home. I bicycled back. That was our honeymoon. Yeah. Wow. And Nancy, I mean, where were you and what went through your head when you heard for

the first time that Erdnan had decided to do that crazy around the globe thing? Well, remember when I first met him, he told me that he had this dream to go around the world by human power. My first reaction was, who dreams that big? I mean, seriously, I grew up in a small town in the middle of the US. I didn't know the names of mountains. Now I do. But I didn't even realize that there were these huge mountains and that somebody had

a dream so big about the world like he did. So I was fascinated. I felt confident and sure enough about who I was. I was happy with my career. And I was happy in my place in life that being with somebody who had a dream like this was not only inspiring for me, but it was something that I could truly get my head around. If you can imagine, I'm not your ordinary person who wants their partner to be in their life all the time.

I probably would not work very well with somebody like that. So the fact that he had a dream was intriguing and inspiring. And I was 100% supportive every step of the way. When the accident happened and your own died, it was crystal clear to me then on a much deeper, maybe spiritual level, if you will, that it was time for him to begin this journey, that he could no longer talk about it, that the baton, if you will, had been passed to him and it was time for him to go. We knew that, I think, at a deep level inside.

And so there was no question in my mind that it was time for him to go. It was either if you still want to do this expedition, then make it happen. You can no longer wait for approval or sponsorships or anybody else in the world to say it's okay. It's between us if it's okay. And so it began that way and we never looked back. So she was on a business trip when the accident happened. She came back a couple of days later. We sat across the table and I told her I must do this now.

She said, yes, you will. And we didn't look back. Well, what kind of journey was it for you? What did it allow you to do? You know, you've been fighting the elements. You've been alone. You... I read how difficult it must have been.

I think the journey in my mind proved to me that when I set my mind to a challenge of this sort, I will do everything in my power to make it happen. I will apply all my resources. I will pull no stops and I will carry on toward the destination. But I am resourceful enough to take a step back, reconsider, make sure that survival is guaranteed and that I do not take unnecessary risks. As difficult as this was, I survived.

I made it across three big oceans. I made it across difficult waters in a sea kayak. I traveled across continents where I wasn't always safe. But I also found that I could count on humanity, that the journey provided. As long as I served the journey, the journey provided, others found a place for themselves in the journey. It was the journey that drew them in. It wasn't necessarily me. I was just yet another person, another face.

But when they saw my loaded bicycle or this yellow odd rowboat coming from the horizon to their shores, they wanted to know what this was about, what the story was. And then when they realized the extent of it, how big it was, that it was bigger than me, they signed on and they became my biggest supporters. It never failed. So I could leave one shore with full confidence that on the other shore, I will find just the right people to help me complete this. And what do you say to people that look at your achievements or achievements of people that climb the high mountain and stuff?

And who are like, why? You know, why doing that? I know it's a very basic question, and yet most of us have it, right?

I think for me, it comes down to demonstrating mastery. It's an environment as wild as it is, with variables that I can't control. It allows me to grow to meet that challenge. These expeditions require me to be prepared for the unknown and to be able to handle any challenge that could arise during that journey. It allows me to be self-reliant. It empowers me to be out there. So when I am in the city, as we all are, we rely on society to provide the cushion. If we falter, if we trip, there will always be someone coming to aid.

There will be distractions and aid coming our way at all times. But out there, I'm focused. I am in charge of my destiny. Everything I do, all the results that I get are asked straight from me. So I cannot make excuses as exposed as I am. I also enjoy that responsibility. So I think it's all about empowerment and demonstration of mastery. That's where it comes down to for me.

Right. OK. How did it feel after five years of this incredible adventure to come back home?

It was not simple. The journey had been my compass. It had been my rudder. I had applied all my resources to getting it done. I now realize that I had expectations that if I succeeded and piled on all these Guinness World Records, 14 of them registered during the journey, that I would come back and have our nonprofit that we established to educate and inspire, especially children, be a vehicle to tell the story.

And there was not enough coverage. There was not enough engagement by the society. So I felt all of a sudden that it was all for naught. And I wallowed. So, Nancy, now that's your expertise, right? Mental health. Yes. How did you step up to the task?

One day, it hit me very clearly that I could possibly lose him, not because of an accident out in the expedition, but that he would become so depressed that he may make a choice. And he didn't want to be a burden on me. And I knew that he was smart enough, resourceful enough. And if he was depressed enough, particularly a man of his age, because statistically, there are lots of people who commit suicide in this world. And men do that on a fairly regular basis, whether people are aware of those stats or not.

And it became clear to me that, oh, my gosh, as a mental health professional, if I did not see and recognize signs and do something about it, I couldn't live with myself. And so we had an intervention, if you will, in terms of a real heart-to-heart about what was happening and that help was available. And Erden responded. He actually responded to that. And other things that I was doing, I would watch him and I realized that what was happening was real clear depression.

And I couldn't deny it any longer. I couldn't avoid it. I couldn't be angry about it. I needed to understand and recognize what it was. And so thank goodness we made some choices together. I stood by him. He responded to treatment and help. And we were able to move past this.

But for me, I don't know where I'd be today. I would probably still be in a puddle of tears if I had not been able to recognize what was right there in front of me, especially as a professional who's been in this business for years. And what the fact that you're a professional, were you somehow blinded to what was happening? Or were you extremely aware of what was happening? Well, in some ways both, Stan. I was angry.

I mean, now let me put some context around this. It wasn't just the expedition. It wasn't just the fact that I wasn't seeing any movement in him. I had my own stuff going on at that time. My mother died a week after his expedition ended. And so I had a lot of issues around knowing my mother was ill and his expedition was coming to an end. I had choices I had to make.

I spent the last five days of her life with her after his expedition ended. We didn't know she was going to die then, but she did. And Erden came to be with me during that time as well, which was deeply healing for him and I to be able to reconnect as humans around something as important as my mother's life or death. So for me, I was in my own, I had my own stuff going on. I was also going back to Australia to take another job. So I had to mentally kind of keep it together to leave one job, to start another job, to

move back outside of the country. My mother just died. We had a home in transition. Imagine all those stressors on any one person. And then it hit me about two months later when I was alone in Sydney and he was still in Seattle, not able to get off the sofa. I mean, he was hit hard with this depression and I didn't understand it because I was 15,000 miles away until later.

And so I had my own stuff going on that then interfered and interacted with his. So it got pretty messy and complicated, of course, during that time. But we were able to talk through it and stick together and work through it, fortunately. Wow. So Erden, would you say that maybe one of the toughest parts of the journey was actually when it ended? Oh, yes. Oh, yes.

I think I was at peace during the journey, as difficult as it was. I was able to handle it with grace. But it's always difficult for me leading up to the start of a journey and also the aftermath. And the circumnavigation itself after a five-year commitment like that was especially difficult. I think we can all understand that. So moving on, today you are joining a team of quote unquote Vikings on a mission to explore sustainable ways to live. I see you are proudly wearing the colors of the Viking crew.

You need to tell me or tell us a little bit more about this new adventure. I went to the website. It's both fascinating and extremely intriguing. And maybe my first question is, is the purpose to find ways to avoid the collapse of our world or rather to better prepare for the things to come? I think it's both. The Midgard Viking expedition has the mission to observe and document the solutions that communities have implemented toward a sustainable living.

It could be simple things as having bicycle lanes or public transportation or recycling programs. It could be solar panels on every roof. It could be wave energy, tidal energy, wind farms, solar farms, you name it. There are many solutions that we can implement that will reduce our impact on Mother Nature. We were, as human beings, 1.9 billion at the turn of 20th century. Today we are 7 billion. The number is going to be 9 billion by 2050.

We have already reached the carrying capacity of Earth. There is no planet B. We are long past the point where we can be happy with conservation and preservation of habitats. We have to start thinking of how do we restore that? How do we regenerate? How do we make this a livable place for our grandchildren? Because as human beings we are in an extractive mode.

We are a destructive species. We leave a wasteland in our path. We need to change our ways and become stewards of this Earth. So when the invitation came to the Midgard Viking expedition, I did not hesitate. I said this is a mission bigger than me. It is a mission that a dozen concerned citizens will take on to make this message heard and start a conversation around this adventure. It will just become our stage and our platform to instigate that conversation.

And you are talking about an adventure. And indeed, to me it seems like everything from an adventure to a scientific expedition to a philosophical and spiritual quest. You know, reading the description on the expedition website, I find a lot of spiritual references. Can you talk to me about that? When we have a mission that is bigger than us, it forces us to rise up to that occasion by peeling away comforts that we have on land, having a fairly primitive vessel that as the Vikings had back in 1000 AD to plough the waters of the oceans and sleeping on wooden

decks with no creature comforts to get across these bodies of water, we will be forced to face our fears. We will be forced to face our limitations, but we will find comfort in the team around us and that exposure and the appreciation of that exposure will also draw others to follow our journey. And in that moment, when they follow us, we will create teachable moments that will give the opportunity to talk about sustainability and the mission that we have. So I think in that sense, we are creating this opportunity for everyone to participate.

Yeah, and that's interesting because honestly looking at it for the first time a few weeks ago, I was like, do we actually need that? I mean, is there anything that we don't know that those guys are going to discover? Everything you mentioned about sustainable energy, we know it. I mean, today, a lot of people say, look, we are not looking for solution. We are looking for ways to implement what we need to do. And then thinking a bit more about it, I went like, well, yeah, I mean, there is this spiritual element to it.

There is this merging with the element. And maybe, yes, there is something to be done there. We're not going on a yacht, right? We don't have all the amenities that a yacht would provide. We will be using this simple Viking vessel that will have stones for ballast. And it will have just the very basics that will get us across. We will not compromise on safety, but we will try to use the methods that they used to get across these bodies of water, make it to the next port, and engage the community there.

So each community that we visit, then we'll look at this vessel and say, wow, this is not as elaborate as we had anticipated. This is interesting. What are they doing next? What have they done? And then when we start talking about them and engaging them about the solutions they've implemented in their community, we will highlight that. We will honor that.

We will say, do more of that. And we will show that as an example and showcase that and then take that to the next community and say, what have you done? And then when we have a dozen solutions that have been highlighted on our website, we can say to the world at large, tell us what you have done. Send it in and we will publish. So it's not just about us going to places. We will invite people to come to us and become we become a hub, a clearinghouse of solutions

if you will. So Nancy, are you going to be part of this adventure as well? From a different angle, I don't suffer as well as he does. Let's put it that way. I listen.

I know most of the team. I listen to the calls they have. I'm intrigued and inspired by the quality of these individuals that have chosen to be part of this journey. They're extraordinary people on every level, physical, emotional, spiritual. They are people that seem to really care deeply about this planet and they demonstrate in their actions who they are as people. So I think it's exciting for him to be part of a team that is so professional and so committed

to the cause and have the maturity and they're ego lists. I think Stan, that's what I see the most is that these are people without egos and yet they're extraordinarily accomplished, but they're not bringing an ego to this mission and that's the spiritual piece also because it takes a certain amount of maturity and connection to this planet to be able to set that ego aside and take on a bigger meaning. And that's exciting. So in that sense, I'm 100% supportive and will be part of it sort of from the outside.

It's not just the journey taking this Viking vessel from Oslo around Europe, say to Ireland and then Portugal into the Mediterranean, all the way to Istanbul, then the Black Sea. I mean, that's the path that we will draw on the charts. But we also have a higher mission to support a climate park in Costa Rica and restoring mangrove habitats on the coast of Myanmar. The Viking expedition, if you will, is going to be the lightning rod. It will be the story, attractive story with an underlying mission that is much bigger than what it seems. It's not obvious, but we need to make this known.

So we're looking at a budget of $1.3 million to get everything done. Not just looking at the expedition itself. We have to pay for the expedition, get it done, start the expedition, start the conversation. That's just part of it, a small part of it. We will do the sea trials. The vessel is ready. Oh, okay. See, the hull is ready. The mast is up. The sail is together. The vessel has been registered in South Africa where it was built. We will do the sea trials of this vessel first on a lake behind a dam in South Africa.

I saw that. Yeah. Starting late January through early February. Then we will apply the waters by Durban on the east side of South Africa. Then we will take the boat to just east of Cape Town. When the weather allows, we will launch and bring the boat around the Cape into Cape Town for show and tell. All of these are in the works. A dozen sailors. We will each travel to South Africa to get this done, receive the proper training. We will have a Danish and a Norwegian sailor come down who are experienced in Viking vessels, replica vessels. They train and certify people to do these.

They will come and train us so that we will be competent when we leave from Oslo in June. Finally, what advice would you have for children who are increasingly anxious about the time to come? Well, I'll begin. For children, for anyone, people need to wake up and start paying attention to their contribution to destruction of our planet. There are so many simple ways people can adjust their modern or not so modern lifestyles to accommodate. People most impacted by climate change are the poorest communities around the world. That's where we see it already. The plastic that is in this world is going to choke us all to death. Until communities and

seaport nations start dropping into the ocean, that will wake up maybe those that are wealthier to take a look. But already the pollution in the ocean and our unsustainable lifestyles have got to change. Children can do things every day, whether that's in more progressive countries or other nations is to begin to pick up, to rethink, to use anything sustainable that they have, whether it's drinking water, containers, getting rid of plastic, consuming less, our consumption is choking us. So those are just some of the ways. We have billions living on earth right now. So 7 billion was the number we quoted before. And if 10% of that is living in first world lifestyle and everybody else is aspiring to have

the same, just imagine how much pollution that would create. It is their right to aspire to a better living, certainly, but it is just not sustainable. Just imagine multiplying pollution that we have today by seven times, 10 times. It's already bad enough. And this is going to get much worse before it gets better. So I do not blame Greta for striking in coming out of school and saying you have ruined our future. And I understand the anger that is brewing in the next generation. And I certainly hope that they will make better choices than we have as our generation has created these problems for them. It'll be up to them to solve it, but then why not speed up that process and start the solutions today? Let's start discussing,

talking about this today. Okay. Thank you so much. Thank you, Nancy. Thank you, Elden. Wonderful. Thank you.