Back in America

Carol Golden is the chair of Housing Initiatives of Princeton, or HIP, and also a member of the Affordable Housing Board of Princeton. Welcome to Back in America, Carol. Thank you, Stan. Happy to be here. While we were preparing this interview, you told me that a lot of this passion for volunteering and helping others comes from maybe your parents. Your dad was a lawyer, your mom was a teacher.

Can you take me back to those early days and maybe how that has forged who you became? Both my parents were basically civil servants. My father was a lawyer, but he was appointed to be a judge of workers' compensation for the state of New Jersey when he was pretty still young in his career as a lawyer. He had been an assistant U.S. attorney briefly. Most of his career was as an administrative law judge overseeing cases of workers' comp, which is, for those of you who don't know, is when people get hurt at work. We have a system that New Jersey was one of the most progressive states in the country,

a system of compensating people for the pain and suffering and medical bills accompanying that kind of injury. My dad was a softie, and he really saw the worker side of things. We'd hear about his cases. We even went to hear him in court a couple times, watch him on the bench. I definitely sensed from him that the workers were people, all walks of life, all kinds of people, got hurt at work, and the people they deserved to be taken care of. It was not the days of, you know, let him eat cake and whatever happens, it's your problem,

you know, the 12-hour work days and children working. He was a liberal, and he saw that as important. Then my mom was a public school, high school English teacher and just really loved the kids. She taught in my high school, so that was weird. She was the teacher that the kids were the least academically inclined, the ones where the home life wasn't so great and homework wasn't always perfect. Those are the kids that she felt the most passionate about.

I definitely picked up on that. They were not highly paid people, but we lived fine. They showed that we're a part of a community. I think I want to be part of a community. I don't want to be someone who's above or below, but different from. I just want to be in it. Yeah, and we are going to touch on that very soon. But I still want to stay in your early days.

How do you think that being first generation Eastern European immigrant has forged your personality? Well, my parents were the first generation, right? I'm second generation. Yeah. Seeing my parents, I knew one of my grandparents, I actually knew one of my great grandparents who spoke no English. Seeing how they could make lives for themselves in America, the stories of their grandparents

and their parents that were not so great from Europe. I think I wanted to follow in their footsteps. I wanted to be part of the community that can help people like they. They probably needed help. They were smart and they did well in school. But in those days, and I think I may have mentioned this to you before, my father passed in January. So he's been in my mind a lot.

My brother was just ranting at me recently about in those days, public education was wonderful. They went to Trenton High School. Trenton High was one of the best high schools in the nation. Money was put into public education. It was a priority. And then you get educated people. And then educated people can go off and get the jobs and have careers that are meaningful

and fulfilling and participate in the democracy. Maybe I'm going off on a tangent here, but I do see a connection that where we've gotten in our country now, we have lost that devotion to public education. And there's been too much antagonism to teachers and public schools. And I think that has an impact on the electorate. And then you get people voted into office who don't believe in these policies. So it's a cycle.

You touched on the government. And I wonder what you think of the following. This country doesn't seem to have a social buffer, like some countries in Europe. And this is why you exist, right? You and the housing initiative of Princeton to provide for what some countries, government provide for their own citizens. I mean, are you advocating for the government to provide more support and social service? Or do you think that the model that is in place today is sufficient?

I am very much advocating for the government to be more involved in providing social safety nets, housing in all kinds of ways. HIP is a member of a national organization called the National Low Income Housing Coalition, which is a huge lobbying advocacy firm in D.C. And I try to stay on top of what kind of legislation is out there nationally and statewide that, in terms of housing, going to try to make things better without little agencies like housing initiatives of Princeton trying to keep people afloat. So there's a state, I don't know if you're aware, but we do have a rental assistance

program that just got put into effect in the midst of the COVID crisis. There's a hundred million dollars going to be coming. I think some of the money is federal, but it's coming through the state for rental assistance just because of what this problem that we know is happening right now where people aren't working and are unable to pay their rent. But it's going to start. You can apply in July. The money will start flowing in September.

So let's just say it works smoothly and it gets to the people who need it. There are people right now on June, whatever we are, 24th, 5th, they don't have any money to pay rent right now. And they don't have money to pay rent in July, they don't have money to pay rent in August. And so the government's doing nothing about that right now. The federal level, the Congress is trying to get a second wave of money to come flowing called the, I think they're calling it the Heroes Act. The CARES Act was that first trench of money, but it's not coming.

They're not agreeing. And one of the big pieces is the Democrats want emergency rental assistance in the bill now, now because people cannot pay their rent. But you're not going to see that. I don't know what kind of compromise they'll come up with. But clearly, European countries, many European countries do better at this. And I would like nothing more than to have HIP become obsolete because we're not needed because people aren't getting evicted from their homes.

So we understand that HIP provide a roof for people who don't have a roof. Can you tell us a bit more about what exactly is HIP? When does it jump in to help people? How do people actually, what do people have to do to be part of this program? And how many housing you provide? Okay. Well, we have basically two programs. And one is the actual, as you say, roof over the head for what we call transitional housing

with wraparound services. That program is for families because we have our housing units are only two bedroom. So we can't unfortunately help single people and we can't help people with too many kids because we don't have units that are large enough at this time. With this program, we really help five families at a time. It's small, but it's very deep. So a family that is working low wage earning with a kid or a couple of kids can apply to us. And we will try to provide a safe, clean, nice apartment unit in Princeton,

where the public schools are excellent. And help them move in, provide them with furniture. And then over the course of one to two years, which is the timeframe for being part of that program, we will provide the family with many services that we think it takes for a family or an individual who is at the low end of the earning scale, who maybe has limited education, who has had some hard knocks in life. That's what they need to get to a better place, be able to be self-sufficient and provide for their families. So, for example, we have a case manager who's a trained social worker.

We have a financial counselor. We contract with financial counseling so that early on our folks look at the budget, figure out what it is they're making. We're charging 30% of their income to rent, which is the low end of affordable. But they are working and they should pay for their rent. But then they can budget the rest of the money. And it should be doable because whatever their income is, we'll take only 30% and we'll subsidize the rest. We also have a career counselor. We have a couple of different types of career counselors that can help with resume and interviewing and looking for jobs.

The counseling on what kind of education you might want to do while you're here in this safe bubble and can take some risks, maybe work fewer hours and go take some classes because you're here with HIP, we'll adjust your rent, we'll work with you. We have had some great successes in that program. Yeah, we heard Louise explain how you helped her actually network. I mean, I was quite fascinated to hear her mention that you provided her with sort of a how to mingle and get to meet other people in the community. And that was a big plus for her. Yeah, Louise was very young and new to the community. And, you know, it's always hard to move into a new place.

But when you're coming from growing up in Trenton, it's a different type of upbringing, a different kind of world. You know, it can be intimidating to come into a whole new community and integrate your child into the system and the schools. And Louise is such a hardworking and so enthusiastic person that, you know, her irrepressible personality and perseverance, you know, is hard to match. Perseverance, I think you're right. She also mentioned how she was on your back day after day trying to see if there was an opening. That is true. Yeah. What did you you know, how did you react to this perseverance? It worked. It actually did work.

Yes, I don't know. I haven't heard your interview with her, but I will say that when she first applied, I just thought, oh, my, I don't know if we can help this young woman. We didn't have a unit at the time, so we couldn't. And she was she didn't have her child yet. And I said, you'll just have to wait and see if something opens up. I'll be back in touch. And I definitely kept her on the list. And I did. I didn't forget her, but nothing was opening up that quickly. But Louise wasn't waiting.

So, yes, it's true. Every whatever, what period I would get an email or a call from her. And sure enough, within not too long, we did have a unit open and we were delighted to have her join us. We'd be part of the HIPP program. So Louise is one of the person that you've helped. Do you have other stories of people that you would like to share with us? Yes, we have many stories. We have there's a woman who was an immigrant from South America.

Get where? And she really wanted to be a physical therapy assistant. And she was with the program for almost two years, which is usually when it ends. But she got she was so close to finishing finishing her PTA degree at Mercer County Community College that HIPP just extended her time with HIPP, helped her with her rent, helped her get through, helped her pay for the test you have to take to get certified. And now she is a PTA. Well compensated. It's a good job. Physical therapy assistant. She lives in over the Route 1 in West Windsor.

She's looking to buy. She and her daughter are doing great. And she's and she's a help. Like she's someone who reaches out to me. We we meet for coffee. She always asks what she can do. It's a wonderful thing like Louise when folks graduate from the program, get on their feet, get to pursue what they wanted to pursue and follow their own trajectory and then look back and see how they can help.

Yeah, help HIPP and help others. Yeah, incredible. HIPP started in 2010. How many families have transitioned through the program already? Since 2010, about 20 families have transitioned through, I believe. And just for the sake of history, it was established in 2001, as part of a consortium of nonprofits that was called the Princeton Outreach Projects that was started by Trinity and Nassau Presbyterian churches.

And so that's an interesting history of the organization. And they helped only one or two people over many years. And then in 2010, branched out on our own and became our own independent 501 C3. And how long have you been involved yourself with the program? Since 2016. OK, OK. We started this conversation saying how much active you've been in the volunteer work. I've also read that in 2018, you were awarded the BUD Vivian Award for community service.

So that really speaks about your involvement with the community. What are the most proud memories you've got of the work you've done?

Well, that's a hard one. I'm very proud to have been very active on the Planned Parenthood board for many years. And I was chair of that board for three years. And given where we are now in our political world, it really does feel like I was fighting the good fight by sticking by Planned Parenthood all those years and being an ambassador for Planned Parenthood. I feel very strongly about a woman's right to choose and women's reproductive health. So that and that has such a big impact.

It's such a national thing. So I feel very proud that I devoted that much time, money and effort to that. But for HIP is really in my heart now because of the kind of work we do, it is so hands on. Planned Parenthood is a big picture, you know, getting out there to be an advocate, telling everybody, you know, how important these rights are, giving money so the money would go to the right people to get things done and preserve this important right that women need. HIP is like the other end of the spectrum where you're just looking, you're really helping individual women. Many, many, many, most of our clients are single moms.

And you're getting into their lives in a way that isn't judgy and isn't telling people what to do, but is trying to be a partner with them and say, let's figure out how we can get this better for you and get you and your kids on a better track. And I want to help. And I can do that. Right. As a child, what did you want to do when you grew up? I wanted to be a lawyer like my father. Do you sometimes wish you had been a lawyer? No, I never wish I had been a lawyer.

No, I was a lawyer for a brief time and I really did not enjoy it. So I regret that I wanted to be a lawyer. I really do. I wish that someone had said I could have been a social worker. I think that would have been what I want. I think I wanted to be a lawyer because I wanted to help people. I didn't want to be a lawyer because I love the law. Right. So what's next for yourself or for HIP? You know, what is on the calendar as a big project?

Well, I'm glad you asked that because when I earlier said we do two things at HIP, one is the transitional housing that Louise is an example of graduating from that program. And it's been wonderful. But the other big thing that we do and what is on the horizon to be doing much more of is this is emergency rental assistance, which HIP started doing I think the year before I joined. So in 2015, seeing that, you know, five families, again, not narrow deep, but not a wide impact, wanting to have an impact on more working families. The idea of keeping people out of evictions safe in their homes,

because research shows that evictions can really, once you have an eviction on your record, it can spiral the rest of your attempts to get straightened out. So if you can avoid eviction when things get rough, like many of us, things get rough for us. We have a safety net. We have some savings. We have friends that might help us, family members. Research shows that poor people, working poor people, only know other poor people. Right. They can't help each other. They may want to, but they really can't. So this emergency rental assistance is a way for folks who may have hit a rough patch, how to set back something as easy as a sick parent that you had to stay and take care of.

So you couldn't go to work. Our sick child, we've been stepping up and providing funds for that. Money goes right to the landlord and we avoid the eviction for the family. And what's coming next, as you know, in the pandemic, there's a lot of unemployed people or underemployed people who are not going to be able to pay their rent and are already not paying the rent. And that's where I think we're going to be doing a lot in the next few months. And we're fundraising a lot for that. We have been surviving on private money. And what we like about having only private money to provide rental assistance is

no strings attached. For example, there's some government money that you can't help the person until they have an eviction notice. That's how they prioritize and conserve resources. So unless you have an eviction notice, you can't even get help. So you're being proactive and you realize you're getting behind and you realize what's coming down the pike. You go to some of these agencies, you can't get any help. They'll say, well, come back when you start to be evicted. But then once you have the eviction proceeding against you, then fees start. And so what HIP can do with all private funding is nip it in the bud earlier.

People can come to us and say, I'm falling behind. Here's how you know, this is what I was making. This is what's happened. This is why I can't afford it. Can you fill this gap for us? And then we can do that. Carol, the last question I always ask is, what is America to you? America is not right now. It's not what I thought it was. And I feel duped and I feel kind of silly for having the blinders on that I did. It's not as if I didn't know there was racism and I didn't know that there were bad actors and there's greed. I knew it. But I thought it was more contained.

And I thought that people who went into leadership positions, I really did. I really thought that many elected officials did it for the right reasons. And thought that they had something to give. They were smart. They were good at this. They were good at that. They cared about their community and they were going to go represent their state or their district in Congress and do good. And maybe they had different political views for me. I'm not saying they all had agreed with me on every policy, but I thought they were basically well intentioned. With, as they like to say, a few bad apples.

But what I think I was wrong. I think that power is a very dangerous thing and people in power right now. And I'm thinking Mitch McConnell, I'm thinking of politicians in the Congress, not so much the president, because he's in a different category, all on its own, but he's been enabled. And I just didn't think that these people would enable it this way. I thought there was more of a consensus of what we want for our country. And the fact that this guy can still exist and there's not a complete uprising among his own party to say, oh, this isn't what we are. It really makes me very, very sad.

So America right now is at a crossroads. You know, America right now can go in a direction that will at least help us get back to some of the values that I believe that we originally stood for. But it's tough. And the good part is, I hate to be so negative, so the good part is we are looking at things. Maybe this was good. Maybe we had to get so low to see the racism, to see the ugliness, face it, see our own past. And not brush it over and then work towards what I thought we were kind of working towards in the 60s and 70s when I was young. And I was a little, you know, mini hippie.

OK, thank you so much, Gaurav. Thank you for your time today. Thanks for having me. I enjoyed it.