Back in America

[00:00:00] So Before we start this new episode of Back in America, I would strongly recommend that you take 15 minutes, that's how long it lasts, 15 minutes to watch the short Movie that we are talking about in this episode. It's called alien and you will find the link On the episode's note. Take a minute to watch this short movie. It will greatly help With the episode which is coming up. Thank you. Enjoy

It was like, wait, so you're going through the process. To try and legally become, a citizen, to get your green card. And yet in that process, ICE is Oh, great.

What a perfect and really easy way to know that you're here. We're going to deport you. It was like something about that feels so crazy.

A film is there to spark dialogue. It's there to ask people to question, in some ways, how do you want the U S to be? [00:01:00] It's, incumbent on us as the citizens of the country to tell our leaders, how we want the country to be, it's our choice.

It's our country.

I'm Sam Cutler Kreutz, and that's David Cutler [00:02:00] Kreutz, we're brothers. And we're the filmmakers behind the short film Aileen.

We grew up in New Jersey together, sharing a room, we didn't have a TV in our house growing up. So it was just the two of us, the way we kept ourselves entertained as kids was telling stories and that's just what we did, it's funny now, many years later that, what we're doing is still exactly that walking around, telling stories with each other.

It's been such a wonderful, evolution from being kids, reading out loud and, telling stories to each other while wandering around in the woods.

And I'm in L. A.

All

We span both sides of the country.

All right talk to me about the name, alien, letter A and then lien, it's a play on the word alien, right? So tell me more about that. Why did you choose to write it this way? Alien.

Yeah, we thought that A [00:03:00] Lien was an interesting play on words that gets to the heart of the film. The film has this dichotomy where it's talking about liens, liens are, embedded in paperwork being owed something ownership and sales a very non human thing.

Then on the other side, where there's a play of words around alien. And, the film is so much around people and being at home, being an alien, being away, and we thought in some interesting way, Aline was. Spoke to both of those at the same time, which is at the heart of the film.

So it's really interesting because I was going in a totally different direction. Lean in French is a bond, a link, and I was really seeing how the two were bonded and separated at the end. So anyhow, yeah. So I saw the

separation of the title itself feeds into the [00:04:00] narrative of the film. Oscar, the main character of the film, is someone who's, overstayed. He's been, it's, he is been in the country a long time, but he is overstayed his visa when he first came.

And so in some strange way, he has a lean against him. He's, he is a lot, he's up for repossession, by the government in some strange way. And so we thought that was thematic of a film,

perfect. Sideways can you give the synopsis in a few words?

. It's a film about a young couple who goes in for their. I 130 interview, the green card marriage interview, Sophie is a citizen, Oscar is not, and Oscar is looking to get his green card, when they, get into the immigration office and start to go through the process, they encounter, a cruel, twisting of rules that leads them to, an unexpected tense, Outcome.

So I went through the immigration process and I was stunned how accurate everything is. I was stressful how well you, this, the stress [00:05:00] transpire from the very, very first second of the movie. I love the way you use kinetic cinematographic to really bring us into this atmosphere.

Yeah. Why did you choose to, film this way? And by the way, you start filming this way, we see the family together, and then as the film goes on, we see the story from the eye of, the wife Sofia how she communicate through the iPhone. And a lot of it is really looking at the iPhone itself.

I found it fascinating that you want to talk about that.

Yeah,

one of the things that spoke to us about this particular thing and what it jumped off the page when we read it, we read about it in your New York Times article was, again, I think, here, the US immigration is in the water around us all the time, but something about the kind of banal cruelty of this process, the twisting of rules, people who are trying to do everything right, and still getting punished for it, [00:06:00] something about that, even though, this particular injustice is One small piece, one small story.

It seemed like the bones of it, the kind of parts that made it up were emblematic of the larger immigration issues that we have, and so this tiny little story could speak to that larger swath of people. And I think we found that in general, people who have had immigration issues or had gone through the process in various types of ways have felt a That this film resonated with them, partially I think because it is so specific, but also in some ways, it's also so universal.

The experience is so universal to so many people.

And I think, because neither of us have gone through this specific process ourselves. We worked really hard not only to, work with lawyers and to talk with folks who have gone through similar processes, but also to have many of those people on set, we had folks on set who had, gone through similar processes to try and really make sure that we were accurately portraying and fairly portraying [00:07:00] many of the ways people who are going through this process experience this

Yeah, this is very accurate, right? We talk about I 130 petition. We talk about all those very specific forms that you need to bring to an interview. So for people who haven't seen it. You got an American citizen married to a guy from El Salvador, the man Oscar from El Salvador.

He came to the US in 94 and he's going, he's an illegal immigrant, right? But he's trying to become legal by getting a green card. And one of the last process of getting green card is to go through an interview process. And we hear later. When Sophia, his wife, is arguing with the ICE officer, we are like, Hey, you summoned us here for this interview.

We came because you asked us to come here for the interview. And as we are going through this last step, You [00:08:00] are now taking us and making my husband detaining my husband. Is that, so that can happen, but it doesn't even seem legal to do that. So it's utterly confusing.

Yeah, I think that certainly was our first

Hell is our opinion too.

yeah when we first learned about it was like, wait, so you're going through the process. To try and legally do the right process to become, a citizen, to get your green card. And yet in that process, ICE is Oh, great.

What a perfect and really easy way to know that you're here. We're going to deport you. It was like something about that feels so crazy. And so I think we were both blown away with it. That's why we felt like, Oh, we need to actually put this in a line at the end of the film.

Otherwise you would watch it and go this

don't believe that. Yeah.

yeah,

yeah. And I think it speaks to people's experience of trying, I think most people who are [00:09:00] here who are immigrants are trying their hardest to do the right thing, and I think that's when it gets lost a bit. And so everyone's here, trying to just live their life and, speak to their loved ones and, go to the grocery store and get a haircut and whatever, the stuff that's just normal.

And so I think that we really felt strongly that the sort of, . Yeah. The intentionality of trying to do the right thing, go through the process properly and still being punished was something that felt very resonant to us.

So during the the movie at one stage, we, there is like a news channel on and we hear Trump speaking it's a clear reference to the current political environment. Would you say this short movie is a political movie?

into the Renaissance going earlier, truly like you can read the politics of the time in the art that has been created in that [00:10:00] time, you name it, Guernica, whatever, Goya, like you can just go back through it and just look at the art movements and look at how they've responded, all the way through.

And so I think to try and unlink art and politics is impossible. They are related and good art. Responds to the culture of the moment. That's what art is for. That's what it does. It's our job as artists to soak up the cultural zeitgeist in whatever form it is, and find a way to reshape it, to crystallize it in some way and present it back to a viewer in a way that they maybe didn't understand, or couldn't see themselves, never put their finger on it.

And so like film is political, but it all in the sense that art is political. That's just the nature of art. I think across the board.

Yeah. And, and when we wrote this film, like when we wrote this film, the current administration wasn't in, they, they weren't in power. And I think in many ways for us, it's been really interesting to see this film find resonance with so many folks and certainly in our current political climate, where there's so [00:11:00] much conversation around immigration.

Where this film is really, able to speak to many of the scenarios that are happening right now.

What do you think that viewer can do after watching A Lien in to support the immigration reform or to get involved in advocacy? Around immigration, I think our focuses in this film. Was to say, and to talk about, immigration, it's just about people, it's about families. It's about people trying to be with their loved ones. And for us trying to help spread that message and how people see immigration through that lens is really important for us.

Yeah. And I think also, with a film in some ways is there to spark dialogue. It's there to ask people to question, in some ways, how do you, like, how do you want the U S to be? It's, incumbent on us as the citizens of the country to tell our leaders, how we want the country to be, it's our choice.

It's our country. You know what I mean? And if we can [00:12:00] help put people into the shoes of someone that's not themselves, who's going through a process, in some ways that is relevant to the current moment, people get to galvanize and say, Hey, this is how we want to make America, we can make it however we want.

And so I think. Our film is one small part of that conversation, and getting involved politically in whatever form it takes for you and being aware as a citizen that, that, half the people in the country don't vote, like at all. And one of the amazing things about a democracy is it's we get to say what happens, and so the more people can understand and be. Of the situations in the country, whatever they may be, that's a place where people can go out and make change as they, as best they see fit,

what kind of response did you get so far? So

One of the things that has really struck both of us has been the number of people who have come up. I was literally having a conversation with someone this weekend about it. Of folks who have gone through this process or similar processes and say, this feels resonant of [00:13:00] my experience, and you, the film gives a voice to what it felt like to go through this process.

So that's something that struck both of us. I, it's been, I think, really exciting to hear.

you said you, you heard about this story on a New York time article, right? And then what was the process? When did that become a story?

So Sam and I are always, you're always throwing things back and forth between the two of us. We're in constant Oh, check out this article. Check out this, isn't this an interesting story? We're always in dialogue and about stories. And it was one that, that stuck with us.

We both read it and we talked about it and then we were talking about other things and we just kept coming back to it. And we kept coming back to it and we felt it just kept drawing us in and saying, this is a story that needs to be told. A lot of the work that Sam and I do, especially when we're writing is, in conversation with each other.

And so we were just in conversation. And we [00:14:00] and so the story just built, we really think about building, a story as we're building the world and then we slowly, all the little pieces gravitate in and so for us, that's really what happened with this story was.

We, between us in conversation, it just, we slowly started forming the piece

Yeah, thinking about the arc of the film, where does it start, where does it end, how do you take this, how do you take what is potentially a huge story, it's someone's whole life, still down, what are you, what is the, what are the boundaries of this story, how do you start thinking about where you begin and end a film, and how does it have some arc and shape that you as a viewer can get your hands around, that we as filmmakers can actually do in 15 minutes, What are the boundaries?

And that's sort of it. We started thinking about that. And, there are versions of this script of the script. We wrote about this particular story that started earlier and started later in the process and vice versa. Ended later. Ended earlier. You know what I mean? Finally, settled off, settled on this sort of car to car, if you will, loop that exists in the film that I think [00:15:00] nicely like bounds the story and shows off all the pieces that need to be said. But yeah, again it's, we just start digging into the narrative as soon as we figure out that's what we want to talk about and trying to figure out how to make it work.

Yeah. And how do you, and how do you talk about an incredibly complicated process that, the number of times Sam and I had to go back through and go, okay you have this, and then you have, you need this form and these other three forms and those forms go here and you can get those here.

And it's like, how do we distill that down so that anyone who's watching. Can understand the fundamentals of what this process is that is hugely complicated and takes people years to go through.

Yeah, and you have lawyers, but also simultaneously understand that it is overwhelming that they are being bombarded by a million forms that all the same, very similar versions of the same three letters and numbers, and it's that confusion and, Sophie and Oscar at the top of the story in the car, papers all over the dashboard, this versus that versus this, [00:16:00] like, where is the, Whereas, what's what, and that confusion, while also, as a viewer, understanding the broad strokes of what is occurring, it's that balance was tricky to strike and important to strike.

Yeah, no you've done an excellent job with that. And and honestly, from the very first seconds of the movie, you are on the edge of your seat. You're going to wow, are they going to be late? Are they going to make it? You can, why did you choose to have a little girl with them? I am.

Nina the daughter is really. We thought that she brings them together. There's a family element, when we're talking about this process in general we're talking about families, that's why people want to be in. Any country. That's why I want to, anyone wants to live anywhere because you want to be with your loved ones and you want to raise a family and you want your kids to be safe and happy and, get an education. And so for us, it felt like that was such an integral part of this process, that this is about family at its core, that's what this film is about.

And so I think Nina [00:17:00] really helps hold and represent that space, which is so integral to the heart of the film.

Are you sometime fearing that some crazy radical Trump supporter could retaliate against what you do

I think it's okay.

against you?

Are just, they're just trying to work a job. This is their day job. That's what they're doing. They're trying to do their job as efficiently as possible.

And we think casts a real look at the system itself and to say, Hey, this system itself needs changes. And our hope is that anyone who watches this film on any side of the political aisle can see the human aspects of this

Yeah, I think any, anybody, no matter who you are, whatever your political, motivations may be, can look at the choices being made by these characters and understand them. And made by all characters in the film and understand them. And it's that kind of confluence of [00:18:00] everyone doing the thing that they think is best that in some, and yet we still have a situation that's totally messed up.

That's where it's like, Hey, the light is on the system in some ways, not the people necessarily in the system. And so there are no villains in this film. They're just people trying to do their job as best they can or people trying to go through the process as best they can. Everyone's trying to do their thing and their motivation is like rational and understandable, I think.

And I don't know. We don't fear people watching the film because, The choices made by the characters, I think to anybody makes sense.

Did you get any negative feedback?

Negative feedback. I haven't, no, not really. I think people mostly resonate with it, no matter who you are. We found that people are in tears a lot of the time, no matter what your political persuasion is.

It's so easy to look at our kind of political divide and the polarization of the language that gets used in our country. And see it as a left versus right issue and all that. But I really do think in the end, most people in the [00:19:00] country want similar things. And so you can put a lens on anybody and say, Oh, this person's in one side of the spectrum, the other side of the spectrum.

But trying to find ways to bring people together and find common ground to which everybody wants, is something that we're interested in. And I think that this film is a way to filmmaking in general is a way to put people in a situation that they wouldn't be able to be in otherwise, and maybe, help find a common perspective.

Yes.

Okay. Good. So you did this movie in 2022, is that it?

Uh, Yeah, went through festivals in 2023 into 2024. Yeah, the film was, somewhere in 2022 was, yeah, when it got finished.

And you did a movie before that on toxic masculinity called Flounder,

Yes.

right? And you've got a movie out now called Trapped, which is about a high school janitor who runs into a series of dangerous obstacles.

Yeah.

I'm not sure what it's about. Yeah. What is the thread between [00:20:00] all those stories? Silence.

I'm not sure there is necessarily a specific or intentional thread. They're not films that are, we think about style maybe or, people can look at a body, someone's body of work and say, oh, there's connection between the pieces. And in a strange way, we're the sort of tip of the spear in a certain way, everything else be what's behind us, things that we've done, you can look back at and say, oh, I see there was a thread connecting them, but I'm not sure we're looking for the thread as we go forward.

We're at the very front of the ship, plowing through the waves and what's, what the wake looks like behind us is for other people that kind of. Comment on. Our eyes are towards the future, towards the horizon and so I think the thread, if any thread that I can see looking back at, really has to do maybe with two things, one is trying to create films that people can't take their eyes off of.

And trying to make films that are really engaging from a story perspective, from a character perspective, visuals and dialogue [00:21:00] perspective, everything, that, that really captivate you and simultaneously trying to create films that, maybe all good artists, I said before, captures the.

So not at the moment per se, like in a way that feels like it's, only one note but things that are responding to the world around us, that's what art good art does.

Yeah. And I guess I would add heartfelt, our goal is that. The films that we, are doing that you feel something, in some way,

What's it like to work with your sibling?

it's great. One of the fun parts about having a David as a partner as a brother, I get to work with my best friend, which is an amazing experience and, I think it's fun. We have similar taste, very similar taste and we've spent a lot of time together writing and working, but we also have complimenting skill sets.

I do certain things better than David and he does certain things better than me. And in a strange way, it's like having another version of you on set or in the process, but they're good at all the things you're bad at and vice versa. It's nice to have that mix of [00:22:00] personalities and so yeah, I don't know.

I love working with David. It's in some ways we've, it feels like everybody is joining our conversation, our ongoing conversation versus the other way around.

Did you study cinema?

So Sam went to school and studied film and I didn't. And so in some way that provided a really nice space when we got into film together, when we started working together in some ways we had to relearn film together. And it was, really. Supportive to our partnership. And, it was like such a fun time, it was, we'd just walk around and talk about films and talk about stuff we liked and so it built from there.

Back to this movie, A Lien obviously, it's all about immigration. It's all about the, today looking at it with Trump government and his, immigration policy, how do you see this movie being seen [00:23:00] and understood in the light of what's happening today?

Yeah, one of the things about it that , strangely, we feel like, one of the pieces of film that is most apparent, is the uncertainty of it. The uncertainty of the characters and what their fate will be, and we as Americans right now feel very uncertain. Nobody really knows what's going to happen.

Everyone's a little bit on edge and scared and confused and no one knows what's about to happen, what some of the next moves are, and so that uncertainty is something that strangely connects the current moment.

Thank you so much. I always have one question. I guess I'm going to ask both of you to answer it. What is America to you?

it's my home. That's the truth for me. It's a place that I still, I travel all around the world and I still feel I feel a little twinge every time I come back through TSA and they say sometimes they'll say like welcome home, as [00:24:00] you stamp your passport going in I get a little, like just a little bit emotional in that moment. There's something comforting. It's Oh yeah, I'm back home. Even if it's Starbucks at the, JFK airport, it's something about that's very comforting. And I just want more people to be able to have that same feeling that I do.

What about you, David?

Wow. That's a great answer,

All of that one up.

Oh man. Yeah, I think for me I think dialogue is like something that feels so integral to America and this country, is a space of different perspectives and just a giant pile of people with different perspectives.

And that's something that, like we tried to capture in this is Hey, how do we stay in dialogue? How do we how do we. Make something that is in conversation with people who have different viewpoints and be okay with that in the same way that Sam and I are in dialogue with each other and in conversation with each other and have different viewpoints.

And that's our hope. And [00:25:00] in this film, and in general, like when I think about America, I think about a place where we can be and are allowed to be. in dialogue with each other and in dialogue with the government and in dialogue with people we disagree with. And to me, that feels like a really foundational piece of what America is for me.

Thank you so much for your time today.

Thanks for the questions.

Thanks.

Thank you everybody for listening. If you like this episode, please leave us a review. This is amazingly helpful.

And talk about Back in America with your friends and your family. Thank you. And goodbye.